what exactly is "corkscrewing" as mentioned by Harry T in this months Evo....?
Corkscrewing...?
i interpret it as severe over steer - front end digging into the ground and the tripod effect pushing the rear end around quick than the front. But I don't know for sure - marrows probably right ... it's just how i visualise it.
BenG
ClioTrophy Moderator
My view is the same as Cue's.
Say your entering a right hand bend and the front passenger damper packs in, the weight is transferred to that damper as expected but the damper basically bottoms out so even more weight is transferred causing the car to tripod but in a more dramatic way, spinning the car round in a corkscrew motion.
Say your entering a right hand bend and the front passenger damper packs in, the weight is transferred to that damper as expected but the damper basically bottoms out so even more weight is transferred causing the car to tripod but in a more dramatic way, spinning the car round in a corkscrew motion.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2008
- Messages
- 193
- Reaction score
- 0
2 all as my view is the same as marrows, this is the second thing i picked up on when i was starting to think the dampers were not performing as they should be.
The first thing i picked up on was how the car was really pulling and never really settled into a corner.
The second was how the front end would errrr "corkscrew" when applying the brakes quite sharply, if you put the brakes on progressively this was not as obvious.
The third (related to the second) was how unstable the car was under heavy braking, it use to pull all over the road.
The first thing i picked up on was how the car was really pulling and never really settled into a corner.
The second was how the front end would errrr "corkscrew" when applying the brakes quite sharply, if you put the brakes on progressively this was not as obvious.
The third (related to the second) was how unstable the car was under heavy braking, it use to pull all over the road.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
- Messages
- 199
- Reaction score
- 0
BenG said:
Me too. time to get the jack out and have a gander.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
- Messages
- 199
- Reaction score
- 0
BenG said:
I meant i'll be checking ben :lol:
I think it would be useful for everyone on the forum to hear from those who have had their shocks refurbed:
1. what were their symptoms suggesting a refurb was needed (e.g. corkscrewing...)
2. what their shocks looked like before the refurb (e.g. leak, no "gap"...)
3. after the refurb, how their car now feels
4. after the refurb, what their shocks now look like (e.g. how big is the "gap"...)
5. with regard to tracking, did they check this before & after??
1. what were their symptoms suggesting a refurb was needed (e.g. corkscrewing...)
2. what their shocks looked like before the refurb (e.g. leak, no "gap"...)
3. after the refurb, how their car now feels
4. after the refurb, what their shocks now look like (e.g. how big is the "gap"...)
5. with regard to tracking, did they check this before & after??
I've experienced the corkscrew effect before I had the NS damper replaced, braking into a corner at an "above average" speed, the front of the car would bob up and down and the car would sort of wobble around as the outside suspension loads up. Also the bottom of the reservoir was covered in black oily dirt and was loose (big giveaway!). After replacement of the damper, I no longer get wobble or instability when taking the corner, even at a higher speed.
I havent got a clue what 'corkscrew effect' is?
To me it would be the front of the car suddenly gripping then the back stepping out, or under braking one side of the car digging in and dragging the car to one side.
I have been thinking over the last 6 months, on roads i drive all the time and know very well, that the car isnt handling the same as it did when i bought it? I used to go flat around corners no probs, but now it doesnt seem too?? Now when i go around corners i know well it seems to dig in at the front, then almost feels like im doing a 4 wheel slide, even though the car doesnt seem to slide across the road much, still it holds up the same against my mates R27 as it did 9 months ago.
Checked the dampers and ive got a 4mm gap, no leaking from anywhere and when pushing down each side of the car it is solid. Only 2 things that have changed are new suspension arms and Eagle F1's on the front, (which i wouldnt recommend).
Which got me thinking, now ive owned the car for 1.5 years nearly, is it that im just driving alot closer to the limit than i used to, obviously over time you get used to a car and the roads you drive it on?
Is there anything else i should be looking for on the dampers that could cause this??
To me it would be the front of the car suddenly gripping then the back stepping out, or under braking one side of the car digging in and dragging the car to one side.
I have been thinking over the last 6 months, on roads i drive all the time and know very well, that the car isnt handling the same as it did when i bought it? I used to go flat around corners no probs, but now it doesnt seem too?? Now when i go around corners i know well it seems to dig in at the front, then almost feels like im doing a 4 wheel slide, even though the car doesnt seem to slide across the road much, still it holds up the same against my mates R27 as it did 9 months ago.
Checked the dampers and ive got a 4mm gap, no leaking from anywhere and when pushing down each side of the car it is solid. Only 2 things that have changed are new suspension arms and Eagle F1's on the front, (which i wouldnt recommend).
Which got me thinking, now ive owned the car for 1.5 years nearly, is it that im just driving alot closer to the limit than i used to, obviously over time you get used to a car and the roads you drive it on?
Is there anything else i should be looking for on the dampers that could cause this??
You could also try this. On mine, the near side damper was gone. Its very hard to just push the car down to see if it bounces. What I did was to open the drivers door and then push the top of door frame/side of the roof upwards to rock the car. Also rocked the car by standing on the door sill. The near side of the car clearly was moving more than the off side. Did the same on the passenger side door to rock the car, and again, there was excessive movement in the near side front, where as the driver side was hardly moved at all. With both dampers good, there is less movement and any movement was equal on both sides.
I tried the pushing on chassis technique and car seemed very stable (has only done 15k) - do the rears often need refurb as much as the front?
Cheers.
Cheers.
BenG
ClioTrophy Moderator
The rears are just replaced when they pack in, not sure on the exact price but they are around £300 for the pair.
Its now understood that the push down test on the front dampers does not tell you a great deal of information other than if the seals have gone causing the damper to go soft. You should check on the pressure of them too. Im not sure on how long you have owned the Trophy for but unless you have driven a trophy with fresh dampers it is unlikely that you will be able to tell if the handling had deteriated over time, this is the big give away that the dampers need servicing. So, If the dampers are solid and there are still signs of pressure left in them I would hazard a good guess that they are fine.
The rear dampers are pretty soft so a push down test is not a clear way of showing if they need replacing, obviously check for leaks but the main sign of these going it dodgey handling and the rear not feeling as planted as it should, also possible oversteer.
Its now understood that the push down test on the front dampers does not tell you a great deal of information other than if the seals have gone causing the damper to go soft. You should check on the pressure of them too. Im not sure on how long you have owned the Trophy for but unless you have driven a trophy with fresh dampers it is unlikely that you will be able to tell if the handling had deteriated over time, this is the big give away that the dampers need servicing. So, If the dampers are solid and there are still signs of pressure left in them I would hazard a good guess that they are fine.
The rear dampers are pretty soft so a push down test is not a clear way of showing if they need replacing, obviously check for leaks but the main sign of these going it dodgey handling and the rear not feeling as planted as it should, also possible oversteer.
After upgrading brakes with DS2500's, HC discs and braided lines I've noticed some
major 'corkscrewing' when braking hard. Car actually becomes dangerous and is unpredictable. Again, hoping damper refurb sorts this!
major 'corkscrewing' when braking hard. Car actually becomes dangerous and is unpredictable. Again, hoping damper refurb sorts this!
bearne1 said:
When I bought my Trophy it was unstable under braking and it turned out one of the rear pads wasn't fitted properly with the locating lug. This meant one pad was attacking the disc at an angle and making the braking balance of the car un-even side to side. Was pretty lively at times. New pads fitted and it fixed the problem.
