Hello everyone! I have a 206 GTi 180!

[thelegacy]

Just passing through and noticed some very useful discussions on this website so I thought I'd join! I hope I am not intruding!

I own a 206 GTi 180 myself, lightly modified running about 177bhp at the moment (just under 150whp). I wanted to find out how 172/182 owners have found modification on their cars and whether the Renaults suffer the same lack of claimed factory power. For example, my car made just under 135whp stock!

Regards

 

[Smokinrubber]

Your brave lol

 

[quik5i1ver]

Welcome along, it's always good to have new visitors!

Indeed you're right, we suffer precisely the same issues with claimed and actual power figures.. Also extracting a reasonable increase in power is a highly expensive process for our engines.. Significant gains can realistically only be achieved from ITBs/turbocharging/supercharging.

What are your mods?

 

[stormduck]

welcome squire, the over-rated power claims by manufacturers seems to have become a common thing. Mine hasn't been on a dyno but a lot of people have found there's is lower than stated. Although not as much as your peugeot! That's quite frankly a joke.

*edit* - just re-read and realised you didn't say 135bhp! take that back a bit!

 

[thelegacy]

Welcome along, it's always good to have new visitors!

Indeed you're right, we suffer precisely the same issues with claimed and actual power figures.. Also extracting a reasonable increase in power is a highly expensive process for our engines.. Significant gains can realistically only be achieved from ITBs/turbocharging/supercharging.

What are your mods?

I have an induction kit designed for the car by GSR Engineering and a quite abysmal Powerflow exhaust. Also had the map tinkered with.

I am looking to get a Scorpion for the car as I have heard good things about this solution on the Renault and one user has suggested it makes good torque (158lb/ft if I remember) without any mapping.

I would also look to match this with a sports cat, although Peugeot claim the 180 comes with one, it would be very interesting if another cat makes a few more horses!

I have also had a look at K-tec racings offer on the 182 raising power to just over 210bhp. I would imagine at £3k its not bad value for money in a fwd car weighing 1.1tonnes?

 

[marrow]

What's wrong with the Prospeed?

Do you actually like the 206?!

 

[BenG]

Hi.

My Trophy made 162.3 BHP at the fly when it was standard.

I made the following mods...ITG Maxogen Induction kit and Scorpion exhaust with decat, it then made 169 BHP, I then had it remapped and now im running 179.9 BHP and 157 Ft/Lb Torque.

 

[duffer987]

Welcome
You're not looking for some kind of intervention or something from the members here to get you to lose the Pug? :wink:

 

[j333evo]

Just passing through and noticed some very useful discussions on this website so I thought I'd join! I hope I am not intruding!

I own a 206 GTi 180 myself, lightly modified running about 177bhp at the moment (just under 150whp). I wanted to find out how 172/182 owners have found modification on their cars and whether the Renaults suffer the same lack of claimed factory power. For example, my car made just under 135whp stock!

Regards

Welcome.

i thought I would shed some light on this.

My father in law has over many years worked on engine development and design, having worked on things like the Nissan GTR engine, Audi 4.2 V8 5.2 V10 from the modern era and going back as far as the Maestro Turbo from his time at Tickford, Cosworth, Mahle Powertrain etc etc

When an engine is designed and developed it has to pass long term durability in a climate controlled dyno engine test cell. The engine will in the test cell make a specified power, this is then homologated. This figure is always a flywheel figure, it can never be a wheel figure as there are no wheels in a test cell.

This is the crucial bit, when the car is then produced, to allow for manufacturing tolerances, they are allowed to produce those cars with an engine to within 10% of the homologated figure. So for example if a Clio 182 is rated at 179bhp, it has to make a minimum of 161bhp. It is not just smaller capacity Renault's/Peugeot's that make full use of this, many larger engines like the straight 6 M power engines, the V8 Audi engines all make less than quoted, these exercises the 10% rule to the maximum extent, so if you stick one of those cars on the rollers and makes bang on what it should, the operator is fudging the figures.

The only cars that really make what they are meant to and in some cases way more is modern turbo charged cars, as these cars management systems all work in harmony, ie fly-by-wire, ABS, ESP, especially Bosch equipped cars as everything is interlinked. But these cars work on a produced torque figure, not bhp so the management constantly varies throttle input going on wheel speed sensors on the ABS etc all monitoring what is going on . So even if you have your foot flat to the floor the ECU controls the throttle. This is why on many modern cars you can no longer left foot brake because as soon as the ECU sees brake pressure applied it shuts the throttle off as well.

We put the 500 Abarth on the r/r, its quoted from Fiat as 135bhp and 155lb ft, we got 130bhp AT THE WHEELS, so about 155bhp and it made 158lb ft. We then upped the boost map on it to effectively Essesse kit levels so 1.2 bar instead of 0.9 bar, BHP barely budged, about 2-3bhp IIRC, but torque went to 180lb ft which is bang on the money of the quoted Essesse kit figures.

There are many other examples in car mags of this, the Performance Car mag last month put the Megane RS 250, Golf GTi, Seat Leon Cupra R and Ford Focus RS all on a r/r and with the exception of the RS which made 20bhp under, but about 10lb ft more torque than quoted, every single car made at least 15bhp more than quoted, but torque was there or there abouts.

So don't feel hard done by, just know that pretty much all N/A cars are exactly the same.

 

[Smokinrubber]

Welcome along, it's always good to have new visitors!

Indeed you're right, we suffer precisely the same issues with claimed and actual power figures.. Also extracting a reasonable increase in power is a highly expensive process for our engines.. Significant gains can realistically only be achieved from ITBs/turbocharging/supercharging.

What are your mods?

I have an induction kit designed for the car by GSR Engineering and a quite abysmal Powerflow exhaust. Also had the map tinkered with.

I am looking to get a Scorpion for the car as I have heard good things about this solution on the Renault and one user has suggested it makes good torque (158lb/ft if I remember) without any mapping.

I would also look to match this with a sports cat, although Peugeot claim the 180 comes with one, it would be very interesting if another cat makes a few more horses!

I have also had a look at K-tec racings offer on the 182 raising power to just over 210bhp. I would imagine at £3k its not bad value for money in a fwd car weighing 1.1tonnes?

I have prospeed too and think its pants

 

[son of solo]

Ah the 206 180...the exact point where Peugeot lost their way...sadly it was all down hill from here.... (thinks about his old 106gti)

 

[Smokinrubber]

Ah the 206 180...the exact point where Peugeot lost their way...sadly it was all down hill from here.... (thinks about his old 106gti)

LOL I too miss my old 106 Gti..... the last great Pug

 

[Cue]

Welcome along, it's always good to have new visitors!

Indeed you're right, we suffer precisely the same issues with claimed and actual power figures.. Also extracting a reasonable increase in power is a highly expensive process for our engines.. Significant gains can realistically only be achieved from ITBs/turbocharging/supercharging.

What are your mods?

I have an induction kit designed for the car by GSR Engineering and a quite abysmal Powerflow exhaust. Also had the map tinkered with.

I am looking to get a Scorpion for the car as I have heard good things about this solution on the Renault and one user has suggested it makes good torque (158lb/ft if I remember) without any mapping.

I would also look to match this with a sports cat, although Peugeot claim the 180 comes with one, it would be very interesting if another cat makes a few more horses!

I have also had a look at K-tec racings offer on the 182 raising power to just over 210bhp. I would imagine at £3k its not bad value for money in a fwd car weighing 1.1tonnes?

I have prospeed too and think its pants

in what way?

 

[trophy380]

I had 2 106 gti's, great little car! I'm thinking of maybe buying another 106 gti or rallye and building it into a track day car, but then I remembered about the clio williams. Any thoughts guys on which one would be the best option to modify into track spec?

 

[thelegacy]

Just passing through and noticed some very useful discussions on this website so I thought I'd join! I hope I am not intruding!

I own a 206 GTi 180 myself, lightly modified running about 177bhp at the moment (just under 150whp). I wanted to find out how 172/182 owners have found modification on their cars and whether the Renaults suffer the same lack of claimed factory power. For example, my car made just under 135whp stock!

Regards

Welcome.

i thought I would shed some light on this.

My father in law has over many years worked on engine development and design, having worked on things like the Nissan GTR engine, Audi 4.2 V8 5.2 V10 from the modern era and going back as far as the Maestro Turbo from his time at Tickford, Cosworth, Mahle Powertrain etc etc

When an engine is designed and developed it has to pass long term durability in a climate controlled dyno engine test cell. The engine will in the test cell make a specified power, this is then homologated. This figure is always a flywheel figure, it can never be a wheel figure as there are no wheels in a test cell.

This is the crucial bit, when the car is then produced, to allow for manufacturing tolerances, they are allowed to produce those cars with an engine to within 10% of the homologated figure. So for example if a Clio 182 is rated at 179bhp, it has to make a minimum of 161bhp. It is not just smaller capacity Renault's/Peugeot's that make full use of this, many larger engines like the straight 6 M power engines, the V8 Audi engines all make less than quoted, these exercises the 10% rule to the maximum extent, so if you stick one of those cars on the rollers and makes bang on what it should, the operator is fudging the figures.

The only cars that really make what they are meant to and in some cases way more is modern turbo charged cars, as these cars management systems all work in harmony, ie fly-by-wire, ABS, ESP, especially Bosch equipped cars as everything is interlinked. But these cars work on a produced torque figure, not bhp so the management constantly varies throttle input going on wheel speed sensors on the ABS etc all monitoring what is going on . So even if you have your foot flat to the floor the ECU controls the throttle. This is why on many modern cars you can no longer left foot brake because as soon as the ECU sees brake pressure applied it shuts the throttle off as well.

We put the 500 Abarth on the r/r, its quoted from Fiat as 135bhp and 155lb ft, we got 130bhp AT THE WHEELS, so about 155bhp and it made 158lb ft. We then upped the boost map on it to effectively Essesse kit levels so 1.2 bar instead of 0.9 bar, BHP barely budged, about 2-3bhp IIRC, but torque went to 180lb ft which is bang on the money of the quoted Essesse kit figures.

There are many other examples in car mags of this, the Performance Car mag last month put the Megane RS 250, Golf GTi, Seat Leon Cupra R and Ford Focus RS all on a r/r and with the exception of the RS which made 20bhp under, but about 10lb ft more torque than quoted, every single car made at least 15bhp more than quoted, but torque was there or there abouts.

So don't feel hard done by, just know that pretty much all N/A cars are exactly the same.

I heard the Civic only makes around 160whp is this true? I am toying with the idea of TB's for this car, coupled with catcams. Would I see 200bhp are there any Renaults running with similar results?

 

[j333evo]

I've never seen any results for Civics, but as they are a mass produced car with mass produced tolerances then I would fully expect them to have similar results to any other mass produced n/a car.

The only n/a cars you can expect to be pretty much on the money in terms of meeting there homologated n/a figures are high end stuff which is pretty much hand built and all individually dyno tested, Ferrari's, top line Porsche's etc no mass produced car is individually dyno tested to confirm there outputs.

Another point is when manufacturers have claimed performance figures they should be done with two medium (75kgs each) adults on board and half tank of fuel.

So in theory you should be able to slightly better the times with only yourself on board. But, often the cars used, which then become press cars are fettled slightly, so things like the miss matched inlet manifold on the production cars you can be certain on press cars will have been matched, they sometimes have slightly tailored maps to get every last ounce of performance out of them rather then generic maps to suit all markets etc this is why often you get magazines bettering claimed figures on cars.

I personaly don't get to focused on what a car is meant to do, rather how it makes me feel when driving it.